Date   

Re: Great use case of AREDN supporting cloud based computing

Andre Hansen
 

The theoretical limit on an AREDN link is 144 Mbps based on the 802.11n RF encoding scheme.  The 400 Mbps they describe in the article refers to the user WIFI connection.

Note that the San Diego AREDN backbone network is in the process of being redesigned to be in compliance with recent FCC spectrum changes.  Also note that ownership of the backbone has been transferred to Keith, AI6BX, because I am no longer able to service these nodes.

73,

Andre, K6AH


On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 8:55 AM Nat 2733E N6BRV <njsarn9@...> wrote:

Mark, 

WOW 400Mbps bandwidth between nodes is very impressive.  10+Mb picture in 1.5 seconds (over the top) !!!

 

Self redirecting when a node is absent is a real functional advantage especially when there’s an RF hole or downed node. Will have to test this feature out when AREDN is installed on my vehicle (Solar + 800 Ah LFP battery).

 

Thanks much for the info.  

 

73' N6BRV Nat S.

 

From: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io [mailto:main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Warrick (KM6ZPO)
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 7:28 AM
To: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io
Subject: [ARC2-SDICC] Great use case of AREDN supporting cloud based computing

 

It is my understanding that the American Red Cross relies entirely upon their computing systems, all of which are cloud based. Therefore, I will focus my attention upon solutions that meet that basic operating need of every part of this organization.  

I am a ham radio operator, but I also have 40 years of computing experience. I recognize that no form of radio communications can support the data needs of the organization. AREDN CAN fill the gaps of necessary data links when they are down.  We only need to put effort into figuring out how. 

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/amateur-radio-meets-edge-computing-keep-disaster-response-teams-connected/?fbclid=IwAR2rnqiuG4vKnKjIpgnwB8bAfVUHjvCAtebLt8Uf83Y0jyMVAKyH32Nz3d4

—-mark

 


Re: Volunteer Connection UPgraded

Mack Garrett USMC GYSGT Ret.
 

Bob,
First and foremost thank YOU for all the help...
BUT I must ask what are you talking about? Any chance in the next Teams Monthly meeting you can give a quick tutorial on this FOLDERS location and purpose? I have a pretty fair knowledge of the Red Cross "365fs" aat redcross.org section; but just what I need on Volunteer Connection.

Mack Garrett  GYSGT USMC Ret.
KD6KSP
Cell 949 584 2249




On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 10:47 AM Bob Birch <rrbirch@...> wrote:

Late last night the vendor for Volunteer Connection did a major upgrade. We knew it was coming based on previous e-mail. In the upgrade they did not bring our existing files across. The old files are in an area called Historical Files. Appears I’m the only one who has access to them. I will need to download each individual file and create the folders and upload to the new system. Sorry for any inconvenience, I will work to get those moved into the new section over the next couple of weeks.

 

As a reminder all the files that were in Volunteer Connection should be available and synced with group.io files.

 

 

Bob Birch / KG6RGI 
Volunteer, Disaster Services Technology Activity Lead
 

 

American Red Cross San Diego/Imperial Counties Chapter
3950 Calle Fortunada | San Diego, CA 92123-1827
Direct: (760) 533-1957| Fax: (858) 309-1289
Cell: (760) 533-1957| E-mail: 
bob.birch3@...

www.redcross.org/sandiego

 

 


Volunteer Connection UPgraded

Bob Birch
 

Late last night the vendor for Volunteer Connection did a major upgrade. We knew it was coming based on previous e-mail. In the upgrade they did not bring our existing files across. The old files are in an area called Historical Files. Appears I’m the only one who has access to them. I will need to download each individual file and create the folders and upload to the new system. Sorry for any inconvenience, I will work to get those moved into the new section over the next couple of weeks.

 

As a reminder all the files that were in Volunteer Connection should be available and synced with group.io files.

 

 

Bob Birch / KG6RGI 
Volunteer, Disaster Services Technology Activity Lead
 

 

American Red Cross San Diego/Imperial Counties Chapter
3950 Calle Fortunada | San Diego, CA 92123-1827
Direct: (760) 533-1957| Fax: (858) 309-1289
Cell: (760) 533-1957| E-mail: 
bob.birch3@...

www.redcross.org/sandiego

 

 


Re: Great use case of AREDN supporting cloud based computing

Nat 2733E N6BRV
 

Mark, 

WOW 400Mbps bandwidth between nodes is very impressive.  10+Mb picture in 1.5 seconds (over the top) !!!

 

Self redirecting when a node is absent is a real functional advantage especially when there’s an RF hole or downed node. Will have to test this feature out when AREDN is installed on my vehicle (Solar + 800 Ah LFP battery).

 

Thanks much for the info.  

 

73' N6BRV Nat S.

 

From: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io [mailto:main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Warrick (KM6ZPO)
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 7:28 AM
To: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io
Subject: [ARC2-SDICC] Great use case of AREDN supporting cloud based computing

 

It is my understanding that the American Red Cross relies entirely upon their computing systems, all of which are cloud based. Therefore, I will focus my attention upon solutions that meet that basic operating need of every part of this organization.  

I am a ham radio operator, but I also have 40 years of computing experience. I recognize that no form of radio communications can support the data needs of the organization. AREDN CAN fill the gaps of necessary data links when they are down.  We only need to put effort into figuring out how. 

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/amateur-radio-meets-edge-computing-keep-disaster-response-teams-connected/?fbclid=IwAR2rnqiuG4vKnKjIpgnwB8bAfVUHjvCAtebLt8Uf83Y0jyMVAKyH32Nz3d4

—-mark

 


Great use case of AREDN supporting cloud based computing

 

It is my understanding that the American Red Cross relies entirely upon their computing systems, all of which are cloud based. Therefore, I will focus my attention upon solutions that meet that basic operating need of every part of this organization.  

I am a ham radio operator, but I also have 40 years of computing experience. I recognize that no form of radio communications can support the data needs of the organization. AREDN CAN fill the gaps of necessary data links when they are down.  We only need to put effort into figuring out how. 

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/amateur-radio-meets-edge-computing-keep-disaster-response-teams-connected/?fbclid=IwAR2rnqiuG4vKnKjIpgnwB8bAfVUHjvCAtebLt8Uf83Y0jyMVAKyH32Nz3d4

—-mark


 


Re: DST Communications tools

Bruce
 

Hi Mark and DST group.

Thanks for the AREDN-mesh map. I saw many available nodes in the flat L.A. basin and others down south to San Clemente.
Further South it gets sparse.   I like the idea of establishing nodes in High Schools which maybe used as shelters during disasters. Just how was this accomplished ? How was it funded? How were school districts convinced that AREDN would be beneficial to them?
For San Diego, schools - most used during disasters by the Red Cross - are located in the back country in "radio holes" just how could AREDN work there? Red Cross never knows which H.S. will be used as this is determined by conditions on the ground. It would take many relay nodes for AREDN to be able to reach these locations. Would it take many portable mobiles with their "Go-Kits" to drive to high locations and on the top of valleys to relay the AREDN microwave signals, down to the schools in these radio holes?  Could these high locations be even accessed during a disaster? To establish and maintain these many portable AREDN nodes, would require that the operators stay at these locations, for the duration of the disaster event, or equipment could be stolen. .

As I have mentioned, there is a large pool of AREDN talent in the L.A. area.  There is also the subject of what I call "Critical Mass" that has been reached in the L.A. area - that is: many active AREDN nodes attract more nodes and users. In San Diego, we are way below "Critical Mass" which has the effect of turning off new participants. The thought is, "if there are no usable AREDN signals available on my roof why should I spend the money in setting this up?" Also how can I learn how to use AREDN with no means of connecting to it?  True, I could purchase AREDN equipment as a "Go-Kit" to deploy, then all we would need is hundreds more to make a usable Mesh network!  

During the 2003, 2007, wildfires in San Diego County, There were multiple shelter's set up (in radio holes) and then the fire changed directions and what was a safe shelter was now threatened, and the shelter occupants had to be moved, to another H.S. (in a radio hole). Also animal rescue for horses, goat's  to Dogs were sent to the Del Mar Fair grounds (another radio hole) that needed communications. I also remember the wild fires burning underneath the H.V. power lines depositing soot on the insulators causing flash overs!! So the "Sun-link" line from the East and the "Path 15" from the North had to be shut down! This left San Diego with not enough power to meet basic needs! I was in the County EOC that was fully staffed with many in front of laptop computers "working" the disaster - WHEN THE LIGHTS WENT OUT"!!! Every thing that was not saved went "poof" and the 911 Sheriff Dispatch on the second floor went down as well. We were supposed to have the highest priority for power, yet the place went dark!! There was a collective "gasp" in the room. It seemed to be a very long time before the diesel generators in the basement fired up - filling the EOC with Diesel fumes.  
So I ask this question, during the events mentioned above, how would have AREDN met the communications needs??!!   

Using the AREDN-Mesh Map, I noticed that some nodes were on 3.4 GC - is not the FCC taking that away from the Amateur service?  I scrolled down to my area and I found a station "K6MRW" in the Scripps Ranch area SE of me in Mira Mesa. I noted he is on 2.4GC which has MANY users = high noise floor. Also "tunnel installed" = false. I thought that perhaps this station could provide me a way to connect to AREDN. I looked this station up on the FCC data base, and drove to the station location. Driving out, I went up-up-up the hill past the Miramar Reservoir. I thought this location above the lake would be perfect and there would be no trees in the way! But alas, as I continued my course to the address, I had to travel down-down-down into a deep radio hole surrounded by a thick stand of trees. I drove to the address and found "K6MRW" lives in an HOA "Thou-Shalt-Not zone" - antenna location. I saw no antennas on the house. K6MRW lives only 5 miles from my house, yet it is a no-go. So that leaves me again with no way to connect to AREDN.
Again I see P2P VARA on HF or VHF much more usable.(no gateways needed!)
73 Bruce   WA6DNT@...   WA6DNT@...



/8/2021 8:36 AM, Mark Warrick (KM6ZPO) wrote:

Hi Bruce,

I want to point everyone's attention to the Irvine area of Orange County.  See the AREDN map:

http://usercontent.arednmesh.org/K/5/K5DLQ/livemap2.html#13/33.7010/-117.7478

http://n6ipd.org

IDEC didn't wait around for people to install AREDN access points on mountain tops.  They solved a problem for a specific "customer" need.  Their high schools are used as evacuation shelters.  Every high school already had VHF / UHF radios, but they wanted to be able to dial each other via IP phones, see each location on camera and be able to transfer large data files between each other.  The installed their own AREDN mesh network with low-level nodes at each high school to form a mesh network which is all connected back to the main police station, where they have their EOC.  IDEC is connected to the "greater AREDN So-Cal mesh" through a long-range link to KE6BXT on Pleasant's Peak.  

If you scroll around Orange County, you'll notice a whole bunch of nodes in the south county area.  Our south county is similar to the San Diego area - lots of low-lying hills.

I get the push back a lot that they are waiting for "somebody" to make AREDN available to everyone.  That's not how the mesh works.  Rather, it works by individuals and organizations filling in the gaps - the valleys, the dead zones.  Unlike typical radio comms which require repeaters a high sites covering a wide line of site area, AREDN works best at a range of 5-10 miles.  The equipment most people can afford would be in that range.   Essentially, if everybody had an AREDN omni antenna their home, we would have a network that covers al of those gaps. 

I don't think it's important that we cover every area of San Diego county.  Rather, we just need to make sure that the EOC is well connected and that anyone in the parking lot of the EOC can get on the local mesh.  If there are other "served" clients in the region, they need connections as well.  AREDN, like ham radio, can be done in the field.  All of my equipment is field ready.  We already use WiFI when deploying laptop kits.  It's not a huge stretch to add an AREDN node kit. 

With thoughtful planning, we can predict where AREDN would be needed in the San Diego County region and then plan for where nodes need to be to cover those areas, whether installed permanently are as go-kits. 

P.S. I live right next door to the 600 Parkcenter Orange County chapter office.  I don't have an AREDN RF link because we have not been allowed to put the omni back up on the roof and I cannot install a dish on my apartment roof.  The chapter building has AREDN, but I don't have access to the radio room.  So essentially, unless "somebody" provides me access, I can only be useful with my field equipment.  

On the VARA side of things, I agree, the LAX ARES group has led the way for VARA around here.  I encourage everyone to join their Groups.IO groups:

https://areslax-northeast.groups.io/g/main/messages

https://areslax.groups.io/g/main/messages

Lastly, I mentioned it a couple times via this group.  I know most of you are not able to attend, but we're running a P2P relay exercise this weekend in Orange County.  This is organized by the OCRACES group.  I am running the south county relay station and my friend Scott is running the north county station.  I'm somewhat dismayed that more people don't want to practice P2P.  I agree with you Bruce, it's an essential skill to learn and practice and will be the last line of defense for transferring large amounts of information when all the RMS gateways are down.

P.S. I'm not in the LA Basin.  And the Angels are from Anaheim, not Los Angeles.  :)

---mark, KM6ZPO


Recommendation for DMR Nets: Get a Hotspot

 
Edited

Ted (N6RPG) and I have no issues getting into Talk group 311057 during nets.  We hear and see everything.  We're able to do this because we are not dependent upon repeaters to get into the group.  Rather, we're both using hot spots which get us there directly.

There are many "hot spots" on the market.  I have three of them: a Pi-Star, a Zumspot and a DVMEGA USB stick.

I built the Pi-Star using a Zumspot USB Stick, which incidentally works similarly to a DVMEGA USB Stick.  A Raspberry PI 2 or newer works fine.  The Zumspot is available at HRO:  https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-016662

I use my DVMEGA USB Stick when I just want to get on the nets with a computer - no radio needed:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DM9XVNW/

Lastly, the "Zumspot", not to be confused with the Zumspot USB stick, is a fully-built solution based on a Raspberry PI-Zero.   That's more for the DIY guys who want to customize their case and all:  https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-016490

The OpenSpot3 is a great option (and the most expensive). I've never tried it, but I've heard good things about it:
https://www.sharkrf.com/products/openspot3/

If I had to do everything over again though, I would get a ClearNode.   Why?  Because it not only does everything that all of the above can do, but it can also do Allstar.  I really don't need the "onboard" battery of the OpenSpot3 and I like the fact that the ClearNode uses a familiar platform.  

https://www.node-ventures.com/

But what about emergencies?  Is DMR going to work?

I have an opinion about this.  YES, DMR will work on a regional basis (that is, everyone using the same DMR repeater) but I don't think it's going to work for a wide-scale, multi-county disaster with interlinked repeaters.  DMR is an excellent choice for event-based radios (i.e. everybody on simplex in a small area -approx 5-10 miles radius).    In areas where some people are on one side of a hill and others on the other. the D578 which is already in the trailer can be used as a DMR repeater.  Or it can be linked up to an Analog repeater.  Either way, DMR radio signals go further with less power.  When it's working, I'm able to hit the Santiago Repeater with 1/2 a watt on DMR indoors with a standard whip.  I can't do that with Analog!  Would it be good for a high traffic net?  I think maybe not.   So yes, DMR has its place.  

If anyone needs help building or configuring a Hot Spot, I can assist.

P.S. There are also "duplex" hot spot.  The main advantage of those is that you can key up even while a conversation is going on.  This is useful if you're stuck in one talk group by traffic and trying to disconnect or switch to another.

---mark, KM6ZPO


Re: DST Communications tools

Nat 2733E N6BRV
 

Hello Mark,

   Like the idea about not waiting around.  I would like to set up an Omni AREDN Antenna at my QTH if that all goes well, I’ll consider the mobile. My QTH is 57 degrees to Palomar Mountain and 30 miles away, to which I believe to have a back bone for AREDN.

 

My first exposure to AREDN working with Andre K6AH back 4+ years ago. à (24) AREDN 052717 Workshop - YouTube

No further since then.

 

Please let me know what I need to do OR point me to the right people for further AREDN engagement.

I can C++, C#, MS SQL (SSMS), but only in times of need.  Well aware of à Amateur Radio Emergency Data Network (arednmesh.org)

 

73' N6BRV Nat S.

 

From: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io [mailto:main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Warrick (KM6ZPO)
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2021 8:37 AM
To: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ARC2-SDICC] DST Communications tools

 

Hi Bruce,

I want to point everyone's attention to the Irvine area of Orange County.  See the AREDN map:

http://usercontent.arednmesh.org/K/5/K5DLQ/livemap2.html#13/33.7010/-117.7478

http://n6ipd.org

IDEC didn't wait around for people to install AREDN access points on mountain tops.  They solved a problem for a specific "customer" need.  Their high schools are used as evacuation shelters.  Every high school already had VHF / UHF radios, but they wanted to be able to dial each other via IP phones, see each location on camera and be able to transfer large data files between each other.  The installed their own AREDN mesh network with low-level nodes at each high school to form a mesh network which is all connected back to the main police station, where they have their EOC.  IDEC is connected to the "greater AREDN So-Cal mesh" through a long-range link to KE6BXT on Pleasant's Peak.  

If you scroll around Orange County, you'll notice a whole bunch of nodes in the south county area.  Our south county is similar to the San Diego area - lots of low-lying hills.

I get the push back a lot that they are waiting for "somebody" to make AREDN available to everyone.  That's not how the mesh works.  Rather, it works by individuals and organizations filling in the gaps - the valleys, the dead zones.  Unlike typical radio comms which require repeaters a high sites covering a wide line of site area, AREDN works best at a range of 5-10 miles.  The equipment most people can afford would be in that range.   Essentially, if everybody had an AREDN omni antenna their home, we would have a network that covers al of those gaps. 

I don't think it's important that we cover every area of San Diego county.  Rather, we just need to make sure that the EOC is well connected and that anyone in the parking lot of the EOC can get on the local mesh.  If there are other "served" clients in the region, they need connections as well.  AREDN, like ham radio, can be done in the field.  All of my equipment is field ready.  We already use WiFI when deploying laptop kits.  It's not a huge stretch to add an AREDN node kit. 

With thoughtful planning, we can predict where AREDN would be needed in the San Diego County region and then plan for where nodes need to be to cover those areas, whether installed permanently are as go-kits. 

P.S. I live right next door to the 600 Parkcenter Orange County chapter office.  I don't have an AREDN RF link because we have not been allowed to put the omni back up on the roof and I cannot install a dish on my apartment roof.  The chapter building has AREDN, but I don't have access to the radio room.  So essentially, unless "somebody" provides me access, I can only be useful with my field equipment.  

On the VARA side of things, I agree, the LAX ARES group has led the way for VARA around here.  I encourage everyone to join their Groups.IO groups:

https://areslax-northeast.groups.io/g/main/messages

https://areslax.groups.io/g/main/messages

Lastly, I mentioned it a couple times via this group.  I know most of you are not able to attend, but we're running a P2P relay exercise this weekend in Orange County.  This is organized by the OCRACES group.  I am running the south county relay station and my friend Scott is running the north county station.  I'm somewhat dismayed that more people don't want to practice P2P.  I agree with you Bruce, it's an essential skill to learn and practice and will be the last line of defense for transferring large amounts of information when all the RMS gateways are down.

P.S. I'm not in the LA Basin.  And the Angels are from Anaheim, not Los Angeles.  :)

---mark, KM6ZPO


Re: DST Communications tools

 

Hi Bruce,

I want to point everyone's attention to the Irvine area of Orange County.  See the AREDN map:

http://usercontent.arednmesh.org/K/5/K5DLQ/livemap2.html#13/33.7010/-117.7478

http://n6ipd.org

IDEC didn't wait around for people to install AREDN access points on mountain tops.  They solved a problem for a specific "customer" need.  Their high schools are used as evacuation shelters.  Every high school already had VHF / UHF radios, but they wanted to be able to dial each other via IP phones, see each location on camera and be able to transfer large data files between each other.  The installed their own AREDN mesh network with low-level nodes at each high school to form a mesh network which is all connected back to the main police station, where they have their EOC.  IDEC is connected to the "greater AREDN So-Cal mesh" through a long-range link to KE6BXT on Pleasant's Peak.  

If you scroll around Orange County, you'll notice a whole bunch of nodes in the south county area.  Our south county is similar to the San Diego area - lots of low-lying hills.

I get the push back a lot that they are waiting for "somebody" to make AREDN available to everyone.  That's not how the mesh works.  Rather, it works by individuals and organizations filling in the gaps - the valleys, the dead zones.  Unlike typical radio comms which require repeaters a high sites covering a wide line of site area, AREDN works best at a range of 5-10 miles.  The equipment most people can afford would be in that range.   Essentially, if everybody had an AREDN omni antenna their home, we would have a network that covers al of those gaps. 

I don't think it's important that we cover every area of San Diego county.  Rather, we just need to make sure that the EOC is well connected and that anyone in the parking lot of the EOC can get on the local mesh.  If there are other "served" clients in the region, they need connections as well.  AREDN, like ham radio, can be done in the field.  All of my equipment is field ready.  We already use WiFI when deploying laptop kits.  It's not a huge stretch to add an AREDN node kit. 

With thoughtful planning, we can predict where AREDN would be needed in the San Diego County region and then plan for where nodes need to be to cover those areas, whether installed permanently are as go-kits. 

P.S. I live right next door to the 600 Parkcenter Orange County chapter office.  I don't have an AREDN RF link because we have not been allowed to put the omni back up on the roof and I cannot install a dish on my apartment roof.  The chapter building has AREDN, but I don't have access to the radio room.  So essentially, unless "somebody" provides me access, I can only be useful with my field equipment.  

On the VARA side of things, I agree, the LAX ARES group has led the way for VARA around here.  I encourage everyone to join their Groups.IO groups:

https://areslax-northeast.groups.io/g/main/messages

https://areslax.groups.io/g/main/messages

Lastly, I mentioned it a couple times via this group.  I know most of you are not able to attend, but we're running a P2P relay exercise this weekend in Orange County.  This is organized by the OCRACES group.  I am running the south county relay station and my friend Scott is running the north county station.  I'm somewhat dismayed that more people don't want to practice P2P.  I agree with you Bruce, it's an essential skill to learn and practice and will be the last line of defense for transferring large amounts of information when all the RMS gateways are down.

P.S. I'm not in the LA Basin.  And the Angels are from Anaheim, not Los Angeles.  :)

---mark, KM6ZPO


VARA support

Bruce
 

To DST group

For those that are concerned that VARA is a "one man show" and would not be supported in the event that the author Jose EA5HVK, would become unable to support the VARA program due to illness - I have contacted the author to clarify this concern.  What follows is our communication with Jose.



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: VARA support
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 00:23:44 +0200
From: Ronnie Osullivan <josealbertonietoros@...>
To: Bruce <wa6dnt@...>
CC: Bob Birch <rrbirch@...>


Hello Bob,

As I told Bruce, my family has several copies of VARA source code. In case of severe illness or death, they have orders to contact with Winlink (ARSFI) to sell the VARA source code in order to continue being supported for the next generations.

Please, feel free to ask me any questions in order to clarify this misunderstanding.

sincerely greets you,
Jose
EA5HVK


On 9/6/2021 2:51 PM, Ronnie Osullivan wrote:
Hello Bruce,

Thanks for contacting directly with the VARA author to clarify this.

My family has the source code. In case of severe illness or death they will contact with Winlink (ARSFI) to sell the VARA source code in order to VARA continue being supported.

You can tell this to DST lead person or any other organization that have doubts.

could you tell me the DST lead person email to write him?

thanks
Jose
EA5HVK


El lun, 6 sept 2021 a las 23:40, Bruce (<wa6dnt@...>) escribió:
Hi Jose

I have been using VARA-FM  and love its speed and usefulness especially
for Em-Comm.

I am a member of the California San Diego  Red Cross Disaster Services
Technology (DST) team.

I have been trying to encourage the DST lead person to try out VARA for
passing written disaster traffic.

He has not been willing to do so, because he says, that VARA would not
be supported in the event, something ever happened to you - like: a
severe illness or death. So my question to you is  - have you set up a
means for VARA support in case you were no longer able to continue to
support VARA??

Here in San Diego we have an AREDN network started but not completed,
because the lead person in San Diego was struck down with an illness
that has paralyzed him. With that shutdown of development in mind, Red
Cross wants to be sure any technology we invest in, will be supported -
long term.

Many thanks for your development and support of the VARA program. I will
continue to use it, even if Red Cross will not.

73 Bruce    WA6DNT@...    WA6DNT@...


Re: DST Communications tools

Bruce
 

Hi Mark
I was impressed with your web site and the you tube presentation on using AREDN to connect computer networks!.
I totally agree with you, that AREDN is VASTLY superior  to any of the current Amateur radio digital message programs currently in use. I also agree that there is a large number of Packet stations and gateways across the nation. Packet has been with us for over 30 years, where as VARA is just getting started. Addressing your concern that VARA has "one guy controls the market" I have been in communications with the author of VARA - Jose EA5HVK. I will post his reply - be assured the source code is safe and would be given to responsible people who would continue to support the program in the event that Jose could no longer support the VARA program.
 
The Los Angeles basin, where most of the people live is huge, and mostly flat. It is surrounded by mountain top repeaters sites to the North ,East, and South where AREDN systems can be set up. Also there is a lot of skilled talent available to set up AREDN systems. If an 8.0 Earthquake should ever hit your area, the Em-Comm traffic load would be huge and AREDN is the only system that could hope to meet the demand! (That is assuming the earthquake had not misaligned the dish antennas!) 

In San Diego it is a totally different  story. San Diego County is by no means flat. It is covered with hills, canyons, and valleys.
There are relatively few good available mountaintop sites that have any space in the vault for a lowly Amateur Radio system. Vault space cost is measured by the square inch! The cost would be beyond reach for any new technology like AREDN. The AREDN network was started years ago,  and sites on T.J. - Palomar and Otay Mt were obtained, but that is as far as it went. Only those who had LOS to these sites could get AREDN. Most of the Amateur Radio population could not benefit from the AREDN due to trees, hills, valleys, and canyons, all it takes is a tree branch to stop the signal. I have been waiting for years for the AREDN network to deliver  a usable signal to my roof in Mira Mesa. The LOS path from Palomar is blocked by Black Mt - which has 4 Amateur repeaters on it. Since Andre illness has sidelined him, all development work on AREDN has stopped in San Diego, to my knowledge. 

So what is left for em-com communications? The ONLY Packet and VARA gate way in the San Diego, is in T.J. Mexico. (there is a new UHF VARA gateway on Palomar Mt - but it is in the noise - blocked by Black MT). The Mexican gateway site is a long reach from North San Diego. From Mira Mesa, I can get very good VARA speeds on VHF VARA-FM thru XE2BNC. But what about a real life disaster? There is NO guarantee that any gateways will be available. AREDN in San Diego, the backbone works, but signals are too weak for general use. In a disaster, any communications tool that gives fast, efficient, and accurate message delivery to the key staff working a disaster, should be used. When a disaster has destroyed ALL the normal communications infrastructure, there is a need to get critical communications out of the "last mile" (During Katrina the "last mile" was more like 50 miles) out to an area that still has Internet connectivity. This may require HF PACTOR or HF VARA.   I realize in some rural areas, there may be more Packet gateways available than VARA, If that is the communications tool available, then it should be used. But I have noticed that the number of VARA stations  are  increasing, especially in the larger cities, while packet is decreasing.  I used to use APRS on 144.39 MHz when I drove across country, but now there are so few active Packet nodes left, I have given up on its usefulness. 

 But back to the realities of a disaster. If there are NO gateways available for Packet or VARA, then we must learn how to pass and relay  traffic using P2P to send traffic in the disaster zone. This is where VARA wins the speed contest, but if packet is all you have, then use it.  I am hoping to get a simplex VHF net going to learn how to pass traffic using VHF VARA P2P relay.  That is a much needed skill to develop. 

Thanks for letting me share my opinions on this important subject, and I appreciate all you and others have done in the L.A. area to set up a very reliable communications network. I am especially impressed with the VHF-VARA network that Oliver K6OLI and others have set up in N.E. L.A. to support Hospital communications. I would sure like to see a network like that in San Diego, but we are hindered by the topography.

73 Bruce    WA6DNT@...    WA6DNT@...


On 9/7/2021 9:12 AM, Mark Warrick (KM6ZPO) wrote:
Hi Bruce,

I disagree with your assessment that packet is "obsolete".  There are currently 1,063 packet FM gateways vs. 349 VARA FM stations.   I'm not discounting VARA as a possible future replacement of packet 1200/9600.  I am a little concerned that one guy controls the market though.  For that reason, I don't see VARA as the future replacement of packet.  What i see here instead is a story of VHF vs. BETAMAX.  Remember, BETAMAX was better, but VHS ultimately dominated the market as an inferior product because more than one company was able to produce it.  Eventually, the DVD kicked both of them to the curb and then streaming took over.

If we truly care about the speed of communications, the usefulness of those channels (multi-purpose) and the cost involved in getting up to speed, the AREDN data network is thousands of times faster and costs less to implement.  In the same amount of time you can send one VARA FM message at its fastest possible throughput, I could submit hundreds, maybe thousands of the same type of message over AREDN while conducting a video conference call!  Currently, there is no technology I'm aware of (aside from the Internet itself) faster than AREDN.  AREDN is simple. The adoption of this data network is going to be a lot smoother as the AREDN network develops further.

Therefore, I'm not focussing upon trying to convince people to adopt a technology that is, at best, only four times faster than the best packet FM technology available.   Packet 1200 is common, reliable, and a lot faster than passing information with your voice.  For that reason I strongly recommend that people at least have 1200 baud capabilities.   I discourage 9600 baud stations because of the lack of 9600 baud gateways, and the cost of the radios you need to use 9600.   I am not going to push VARA.  I will, however, push AREDN.  See my website http://km6zpo.com for examples of how I have put AREDN to work in EMCOMMs.

---mark
KM6ZPO


Joe AI6ZE

Nat 2733E N6BRV
 

To Joe AI6ZE,

    Please see attached screen captured picture reported from BrandMeister 3103 server into my ZumSpot still has your (old) assigned callsign.  In case you want to talk to the DMRID volunteer.  Maybe the 3103 server needs to be updated?

 

My radios (D878UV, D878UV BT) have been updated with the Digital Call List (8/23/2021) and also the Firmware (V1.24) so my radios show your correct current AI6ZE callsign with your full name and DMRID from my internal radio’s Dig Call List look up table.

 

It’s only a small glitch but thought you might like to know.

 

73' N6BRV Nat S.

 

From: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io [mailto:main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io] On Behalf Of main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io Calendar
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io
Subject: [ARC2-SDICC] Event: Red Cross So. Cal Region Weekly DMR Net - 09/07/2021 #cal-reminder

 

Reminder: Red Cross So. Cal Region Weekly DMR Net

When:
09/07/2021
8:30pm to 9:00pm
(UTC-07:00) America/Los Angeles

Where:
So. Cal Region DMR Talkgroup 311057

Organizer: Bob Birch Bob.Birch3@...

View Event

Description:
Net Control:   Joe AI6ZE


Re: Event: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net - 09/07/2021 #cal-reminder

johndking
 

Please give me an email check in  

John D. King
 KG6QAE 

-------- Original message --------
From: "main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io Calendar" <noreply@groups.io>
Date: 9/7/21 2:00 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io
Subject: [ARC2-SDICC] Event: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net - 09/07/2021 #cal-reminder

Reminder: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net

When:
09/07/2021
8:00pm to 8:30pm
(UTC-07:00) America/Los Angeles

Where:
PAPA System Analog Repeaters #7, 9, 10, 11, 15 & 18

View Event

Description:
Net Control - KG6RGI
North Check-Ins - KI6LAV
South Check-Ins - KJ6MVB
Sysop - AK6QJ

If the PAPA System is unavailable please migrate to the PARC 130 machine (147.130 MHz, "+" offset, PL 107.2).


Event: Red Cross So. Cal Region Weekly DMR Net - 09/07/2021 #cal-reminder

main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Reminder: Red Cross So. Cal Region Weekly DMR Net

When:
09/07/2021
8:30pm to 9:00pm
(UTC-07:00) America/Los Angeles

Where:
So. Cal Region DMR Talkgroup 311057

Organizer: Bob Birch Bob.Birch3@...

View Event

Description:
Net Control:   Joe AI6ZE


Re: Event: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net - 09/07/2021 #cal-reminder

Kathy Payne
 

Gotcha Rosalinda.  Have a great evening.

Kathy, KJ6MVB
Souh

On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 2:43 PM Rosalinda via groups.io <rsteve9904=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Grant me an email check in
KI6WVA
Rosalinda


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io Calendar <noreply@groups.io>
To: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io <main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Sep 7, 2021 2:00 pm
Subject: [ARC2-SDICC] Event: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net - 09/07/2021 #cal-reminder

Reminder: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net
When:
09/07/2021
8:00pm to 8:30pm
(UTC-07:00) America/Los Angeles
Where:
PAPA System Analog Repeaters #7, 9, 10, 11, 15 & 18
Description:
Net Control - KG6RGI
North Check-Ins - KI6LAV
South Check-Ins - KJ6MVB
Sysop - AK6QJ

If the PAPA System is unavailable please migrate to the PARC 130 machine (147.130 MHz, "+" offset, PL 107.2).


Re: Event: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net - 09/07/2021 #cal-reminder

Rosalinda
 

Grant me an email check in
KI6WVA
Rosalinda


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io Calendar <noreply@groups.io>
To: main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io <main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Sep 7, 2021 2:00 pm
Subject: [ARC2-SDICC] Event: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net - 09/07/2021 #cal-reminder

Reminder: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net
When:
09/07/2021
8:00pm to 8:30pm
(UTC-07:00) America/Los Angeles
Where:
PAPA System Analog Repeaters #7, 9, 10, 11, 15 & 18
Description:
Net Control - KG6RGI
North Check-Ins - KI6LAV
South Check-Ins - KJ6MVB
Sysop - AK6QJ

If the PAPA System is unavailable please migrate to the PARC 130 machine (147.130 MHz, "+" offset, PL 107.2).


Event: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net - 09/07/2021 #cal-reminder

main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Reminder: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net

When:
09/07/2021
8:00pm to 8:30pm
(UTC-07:00) America/Los Angeles

Where:
PAPA System Analog Repeaters #7, 9, 10, 11, 15 & 18

View Event

Description:
Net Control - KG6RGI
North Check-Ins - KI6LAV
South Check-Ins - KJ6MVB
Sysop - AK6QJ

If the PAPA System is unavailable please migrate to the PARC 130 machine (147.130 MHz, "+" offset, PL 107.2).


Re: DST Communications tools

 

Hi Bruce,

I disagree with your assessment that packet is "obsolete".  There are currently 1,063 packet FM gateways vs. 349 VARA FM stations.   I'm not discounting VARA as a possible future replacement of packet 1200/9600.  I am a little concerned that one guy controls the market though.  For that reason, I don't see VARA as the future replacement of packet.  What i see here instead is a story of VHF vs. BETAMAX.  Remember, BETAMAX was better, but VHS ultimately dominated the market as an inferior product because more than one company was able to produce it.  Eventually, the DVD kicked both of them to the curb and then streaming took over.

If we truly care about the speed of communications, the usefulness of those channels (multi-purpose) and the cost involved in getting up to speed, the AREDN data network is thousands of times faster and costs less to implement.  In the same amount of time you can send one VARA FM message at its fastest possible throughput, I could submit hundreds, maybe thousands of the same type of message over AREDN while conducting a video conference call!  Currently, there is no technology I'm aware of (aside from the Internet itself) faster than AREDN.  AREDN is simple. The adoption of this data network is going to be a lot smoother as the AREDN network develops further.

Therefore, I'm not focussing upon trying to convince people to adopt a technology that is, at best, only four times faster than the best packet FM technology available.   Packet 1200 is common, reliable, and a lot faster than passing information with your voice.  For that reason I strongly recommend that people at least have 1200 baud capabilities.   I discourage 9600 baud stations because of the lack of 9600 baud gateways, and the cost of the radios you need to use 9600.   I am not going to push VARA.  I will, however, push AREDN.  See my website http://km6zpo.com for examples of how I have put AREDN to work in EMCOMMs.

---mark
KM6ZPO


Event: Red Cross So. Cal Region Weekly DMR Net - 09/07/2021 #cal-reminder

main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Reminder: Red Cross So. Cal Region Weekly DMR Net

When:
09/07/2021
8:30pm to 9:00pm
(UTC-07:00) America/Los Angeles

Where:
So. Cal Region DMR Talkgroup 311057

Organizer: Bob Birch Bob.Birch3@...

View Event

Description:
Net Control:   Joe AI6ZE


Event: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net - 09/07/2021 #cal-reminder

main@ARC2-SDICC.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Reminder: Red Cross Communications Team Weekly Net

When:
09/07/2021
8:00pm to 8:30pm
(UTC-07:00) America/Los Angeles

Where:
PAPA System Analog Repeaters #7, 9, 10, 11, 15 & 18

View Event

Description:
Net Control - KG6RGI
North Check-Ins - KI6LAV
South Check-Ins - KJ6MVB
Sysop - AK6QJ

If the PAPA System is unavailable please migrate to the PARC 130 machine (147.130 MHz, "+" offset, PL 107.2).

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